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#72422 - 02/08/18 08:25 AM Upgrade Costs?
koby Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Canaan CT
Got this email from the Company about how easy it is to upgrade your version of AC but if you are otherwise computer impaired AC will do it for you for a fee-see below

A few observations: logging into my customer portal didn't reveal any easy to find instructions nor videos; having a version <9.2 means AC has to massage the database to make it acceptable to newer versions so by default I can't do it myself( does this mean $200.00 fee?); guess the yearly support contract has changed it terms or at least reclassified what 'all upgrades' means; suppose the suggestion to remove the database verification process ain't happening;
Plan to contact support during reg working hours today will post if in fact AC/Harris will be charging the $200.00 to do the required database jerk-off for versions <9.2

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#72424 - 02/08/18 01:30 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
DCubed Online   content
Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 547
Loc: Baltimore
In my opinion, this is a seriously misguided idea. First, increasing the annual fee, and now paying for installation upgrades. There are those of us who have dutifully paid our annual fee for years without using ANY support or upgrade. If the time comes that I want to upgrade, I resent the idea of an additional fee.

So, what is the annual fee for now? As previously configured, it was all inclusive: support, upgrades, and ERx. The only thing that I have used is ERx. ERx is a mandatory part of an EHR, so should be integrated in the base fee. I have another ERx program that I can use for free. So, perhaps it is time to cancel my annual fee altogether.

If Harris wants to rework the support/annual fee model for business reasons, it is understandable. Parse it out: initial program fee, support per hour, upgrade fee, MIPS features, etc. I am willing to pay a la carte for what I use, but I am not willing to continue to pay escalating fees for things that I do not use.

There are other reasonably priced solutions out there for EHR, may be time to bite the bullet and contemplate a change. Jon Bertman did a wonderful thing when he created AC for us solo/small practices; unfortunately, this is no longer the company's focus.
_________________________
Donna

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#72425 - 02/08/18 02:39 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
itiscindy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/14
Posts: 1
We are not happy with these new fees either! I mean what are we paying the annual support fees for? It was suppose to be an all inclusive support package.... Beyond frustrated....

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#72427 - 02/08/18 09:59 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Sandeep Offline
G

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 2210
Loc: California
This will hit everyone eventually especially since it's no longer possible to transfer data to a new server without AC re-credentialing your database. That's a pretty hard hit right after increasing the yearly fee.
_________________________
Sandeep Luthra | Sandeep@LTMedical.net
www.LTMedical.net | (888) 285-8812

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#72428 - 02/08/18 11:10 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
mzimring Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 5
The question is: can they add these fees before our renewal of our yearly fees.? We paid our yearly fee understanding that it covered upgrades, so they should not be able to change the benefits of the yearly contract until it is up for renewal. This is a legal question. Anybody with a suggestion?
Of course, these fees are really not fair since most of us have faithfully paid for our yearly renewals--any suggestions.????

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#72429 - 02/09/18 03:00 AM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Bert Offline
Admin

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: Brewer, Maine
First, I suppose there is a charge for the email, because I didn't get it. But, let me make a few points that may be off the mark. The annual support fee should cover upgrades (in other words, you can get new upgrades if you pay for support -- which many companies do), eRx (which may or may not be fair -- depends on how much they pay NewCrop -- the other thing, and I am probably wrong, but it seems eRx was always there way of ensuring that all providers are licensed), and support. Which is not that good to begin with, but they do provide it, even remoting in to fix something.

Second, paying for upgrades, support and (have to throw in eRx), does just that. So, you are using your support annually.

Third, I may never use support for my A/V, backup programs, etc. but I can't get upgrades and new virus definitions if I don't pay the annual support cost. They don't come separately.

Offering support for a certain fee is a lot like amortization. The fact that some users call four times a month is offset by those who rarely call. So, I am not sure it makes sense to use the argument that you never use support. Most companies don't offer al a carte support. They do offer different levels.

The fact that all of us would have to pay for support, because of credentialing is likely not true, because 90% of all upgrades are done to the same server.

I WOULD SAY VERY STRONGLY THAT IF YOU ARE MOVING AC TO A DIFFERENT SERVER/MAIN COMPUTER AND IT HAS TO BE CREDENTIALED (which is untenable in my mind or should I say absolutely stupid) should be free. If someone has to remote in to credential the computer, I am not paying any amount. Period.

The server install can be perilous, and is the only install that could need support. But, it should come with your support contract. If anyone is having to have AC install to their client computers, then the program is too difficult.

The other issue with this mandate is it follows a recent increase. And, I also agree that one's current support contract should cover installs until it expires.

I could see a $100 to $150 charge IF and only IF, it is done within 24 hours. If not, it should be at no charge.

We should differentiate the words upgrades vs installs (even if we don't agree with them).

But, it really isn't good business to increase the support and not balance it out by new features in support.
_________________________
Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, ME

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#72431 - 02/09/18 04:33 AM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: Bert]
Sandeep Offline
G

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 2210
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Bert
But, it really isn't good business to increase the support and not balance it out by new features in support.


I think the major issue is that on premise yearly fee already has a yearly price increase and now we learn it doesn't cover upgrades. That's a pretty hard push to the cloud. So you're paying more for even less coverage. I think it's pretty good indication that it's time to dissociate support from upgrades and eRx.

Fixed fee for product upgrades/eRx per year. This should be the same for cloud or on premise.
Annual fee and/or a-la-carte fees for support.

Just a little heads up if anyone from AC/Harris is reading this, I already have one practice that's moving away from Amazing Charts in the next 30 days and about 4 that are asking me for alternatives. Most haven't even seen the notice yet.
_________________________
Sandeep Luthra | Sandeep@LTMedical.net
www.LTMedical.net | (888) 285-8812

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#72433 - 02/09/18 12:11 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
ryanjo Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/06
Posts: 2004
Loc: Central Florida
Besides the main computer credentialling issue, is AC going to charge for support every time the installer chokes on new installs when it can't install crystal reports?
_________________________
John
Internal Medicine

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#72434 - 02/09/18 01:27 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Bert Offline
Admin

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: Brewer, Maine
It would likely be only for a scheduled install.
_________________________
Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, ME

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#72435 - 02/09/18 02:57 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
koby Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 582
Loc: Canaan CT
In my case there will no fee charged for next scheduled upgrade on my server(per question to support yesterday); when I tried it before and it failed(some months ago now) the installer had issues that could not be resolved even by support, problem is if it couldn't upgrade from 9.1 back then what makes me think it will work trying to go up to 10?

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#72436 - 02/09/18 05:28 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Indy Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 1744
Loc: Western US
In some sections of the software world, the fees for upgrades and support are separate, and the client chooses what they want.

There are software vendors who also charge per incident, and a few that have their professional services folks work your issue for an hourly rate; so there are several models.

AC is changing their model, and the market is responding.
_________________________
Indy
"Boss"

Indy's Blog

www.BestForYourPractice.com
Our Name is Our Creed

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#72437 - 02/09/18 05:59 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Indy Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 1744
Loc: Western US
From a business perspective, it is interesting to see AC enter the fee-for-service upgrade marketplace.

We almost always do the upgrades on nights or weekends, and that doesn't appear to be part of the mix - we'll see.

For clients on a virtualized instance we also clone the instance just prior to upgrade, so that there is a straightforward path back if the upgrades goes badly, or there is an issue when the client tries out the new version. Life Happens, so having options is always nice.
_________________________
Indy
"Boss"

Indy's Blog

www.BestForYourPractice.com
Our Name is Our Creed

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#72438 - 02/10/18 04:04 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Tomastoria Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 618
Loc: Astoria OR
What happened to V10??

I'm waiting for an upgrade -- free or not.
The most troublesome thing about V9 is that it frequently (and unpredictably) freezes when I am trying to "refine" an ICD-10 code through the routine in AC.
Also, eRx can be excruciatingly slow. Is that AC fault? Or NewCrop? Or is it just the time it takes to work through FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA etc before allowing connection?
_________________________
Tom Duncan
Family Practice
Astoria OR

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#72449 - 02/11/18 01:03 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: Tomastoria]
Indy Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 1744
Loc: Western US
Originally Posted By: Tomastoria
What happened to V10??

I'm waiting for an upgrade -- free or not.
The most troublesome thing about V9 is that it frequently (and unpredictably) freezes when I am trying to "refine" an ICD-10 code through the routine in AC.
Also, eRx can be excruciatingly slow. Is that AC fault? Or NewCrop? Or is it just the time it takes to work through FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA etc before allowing connection?


The slowness of eRX is associated with the external calls being made to NewCrop, the integration point to the pharmacy network.

The fact that there are potentially several parasitic/listening connections along the way is an entirely different issue.
_________________________
Indy
"Boss"

Indy's Blog

www.BestForYourPractice.com
Our Name is Our Creed

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#72450 - 02/11/18 07:54 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Bert Offline
Admin

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: Brewer, Maine
Originally Posted By: Tom
What happened to V10??

I wrote about this. Would have made much more sense to come out with a great new version, install it with your annual support and then raised prices.

After that, maybe phase in some install charges to those who can't install AC. I don't believe AC has any intent to charge for installs that need credentialing, installs that occur with issues, etc.
_________________________
Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, ME

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#72451 - 02/11/18 08:10 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Tomastoria Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 618
Loc: Astoria OR
OK Bert --
I have given up any hope of a grand unified theory of EHR.
I was just hoping for a few incremental improvements, and V. 10 was supposed to have been released a few weeks ago. I just wondered if they ran into major problems.
_________________________
Tom Duncan
Family Practice
Astoria OR

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#72454 - 02/11/18 08:57 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: Bert]
Indy Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 1744
Loc: Western US
Originally Posted By: Bert
Originally Posted By: Tom
What happened to V10??

I wrote about this. Would have made much more sense to come out with a great new version, install it with your annual support and then raised prices.

After that, maybe phase in some install charges to those who can't install AC. I don't believe AC has any intent to charge for installs that need credentialing, installs that occur with issues, etc.


Based on the timing and in the absence of any amplifying information, I read this as purposely before the push to do the v10 upgrade. There have been months long waits for upgrades, so this appears to be their solution. Less demands for upgrades, or more revenue to afford additional staff.
_________________________
Indy
"Boss"

Indy's Blog

www.BestForYourPractice.com
Our Name is Our Creed

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#72472 - 02/13/18 06:50 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
beagle Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 136
i'm not opposed to ala carte costs. just make sure the installer covers 99% of situations and is well tested.

if we're forced to call support due to installer failing for something that is preventable with a better installer, that would be frustrating.

i guess we should hold ac accountable. we pay for support, but it's not cover installs. so, report and make them fix bugs. how many have the program crash when clicking too fast? i've put up with it, but it needs to be fixed.
_________________________
Larry
Solo IM
Midwest

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#72473 - 02/13/18 11:46 PM Re: Upgrade Costs? [Re: koby]
Bert Offline
Admin

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 11326
Loc: Brewer, Maine
The only time AC will charge (according to sources familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity smile ) is for a scheduled install by AC on a credentialed machine for the AC SQL database or an install of a client AC on a client computer.

There should be no charge for installs on machines which need credentialing or for installs where there were technical problems.
_________________________
Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, ME

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